gee, i dunno ?

[fish]

So, a grad student is going for the doctorate.

The student submits the thesis which is accepted and the doctorate is awarded.

Some years later it is discovered that 5 years before our student submitted the thesis, a different student submitted a thesis on the same subject.

The two students had the same faculty advisor, who managed the drafting and submission of both theses.

Comparison of the two theses shows that the second student copied phrases, sentences, paragraphs, and pages from the first thesis and put them entire into the second thesis, the one the second student submitted and on the strength of which the advanced degree was awarded.

Plagiarism beyond doubt.

Examination of our doctor's other works, earlier and later, including speeches, letters, and formal publications shows that our doctor has done this on many occasions.

And in the doctoral thesis, of the substantial subject matter and the conclusions.

What should happen ?

I look forward to your answers, as I am somewhat confused.

fish

[ejoyce]

::)Is this someone we might know or know of, or is this rhetorical?

Eileen

[Smoke]

It just goes to show you that our education system is in big trouble at all levels.

The advisor should be fired! and it go on his permanent record.

I had an english teacher in high school...long time ago...He was the head coach for the football team...as long as you were a "jock" it didn't matter how good or bad your work was...you passed his class.

[fish]

Yes. You certainly know the man I am talking about. And I think that at a minimum the doctorate should be withdrawn. What do you think would happen to you or me. ?

You know, I was a Roman Catholic pre Vatican 2 altar boy. I learned about the saints. Later in life I learned more about the saints. Not all of it is good. Some of it is downright bad.

After a number of embarrassments, the Church made canonization a much more considered process.

Well, in the United States we have few secular saints and at least one of them was canonized far too quickly. Think about it, of all the great men and women in the history of this country, one*, only one has a national holiday. (Holy-Day)

This particular saint lived during my lifetime, and I know he was no saint. I personally think that he was a deeply flawed man. He abused women, and he was fundamentally dishonest.

“They” knew it, but for political reasons declared him a saint anyway. At the same time they just about completely co-opted his life and his message, changing them by emphasizing those portions they found socially useful, and erasing – as best they could - all the other portions from the record. They made King into Gandhi.

All those great speeches? Other peoples’ words. Well perhaps not all, but substantially all.

Here is an article by those most sympathetic to King, the staff of the project to assemble and publish his works. After reading farther a-field, I think they go to too great lengths to protect their subject, but if those who are biased in his favor say this, imagine what an unbiased reported can say.

www.stanford.edu/group/King//additional_resources/articles/palimp.htm

fish


*Technically it is still Washington’s Birthday, but everyone refers to it as Presidents’ Day, which puts A. Johnson, Nixon, and Clinton on a par with Lincoln.