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Post by FitnessMaster on Sept 28, 2003 9:40:53 GMT -6
Lower Body
GHR Situps 3x10xBW
Box Squats (14.5" Box w/chains) 1x10xBW 8x2x45 (speed good)
GHR 2x5xBW (assisted)
Superset:
Dimel Deadlifts 3x15x85
Leg Ext 1x20x25 1x15x50 1x10x75
GHR is harder than it looks. Mom said that my form on the GHR situps was better on my last 2 sets.
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Post by Pam on Sept 28, 2003 10:38:59 GMT -6
Nice job Ryan. So tell me, just how much did you enjoy the GHR?  Two days down, two to go...keep it up and you may just get as good as me. Well, it gives you something to work for anyway. |
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Post by jack on Sept 28, 2003 13:53:20 GMT -6
Ryan,work those hams and watch your running speed increase not to mention your squats. Be careful and don't show your Mom up on these . Work on really spreading your knees and keeping an arch in your back on the squats. |
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Post by fish on Sept 28, 2003 17:07:50 GMT -6
Hey you guys, what about the glossary ?
GHR Situps ? I know glute ham raises, but ghr situps ?
Dimel Deadlifts ? I love TBDL (trapbar deadlifts although Stuart McRobert wants to call them parallel grip deadlifts.)
Hey, FM,
Check out exrx.net . Great site.
fish
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Post by Pam on Sept 28, 2003 18:35:39 GMT -6
Fish GHR situps are just that. Situps off the GHR. You sit with your butt on the pad, feet hooked under roller pads, and lean back. They really work your abs if you do them right. Ryan was starting to bend with his upper back. Once I corrected his form and he started to use his abs to bring him up it got a little harder and he felt it just a little more. Dimel deadlifts...let me look for a site that explains those. I am terrible at explaining exercises. |
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Post by fish on Sept 29, 2003 18:54:10 GMT -6
Hey you all,
Well, I've done the search on Dimel Deadlifts. It seems that it is a sort of a dymamic Romanian Deadlift (Hatfield calls them Keystone Deadlifts)
It seems to me that a strong, well conditioned posterior chain and an acute propiosensory awareness is required before this exercise is safely undertaken.
There is risk of L4 L5 S1 herniation or other back injury. I believe that the risk is very high.
The articles also indicate that there are many other exercises which target the same musculature: GHRs, RDLs, reverse hypers, there are lots of alternatives.
What have you done for your multifidus lately ?
fish
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Post by Pam on Sept 30, 2003 6:48:10 GMT -6
Fish here's something from the EF site:
"The dimel deadlift is a high rep balistic movement. You start with a conventioanl deadlift off the floor. Once at the top keep your hips back and back arched and drop the bar to just below the knees then rebound back up fast. This is almost like a plyometric movement. The Romanian deadlift, I have seen this done a few different ways but the way I recomend is slightly different then many of the other ways out there but is the way Louie has taught me so I stick with it. This movement is also started the same as the conventional deadlift. Form the top position you keep the barbell against your legs as far down as you can go. You lower yourself by pushing your ass out as far as you can and keeping a very tight arch in the loer back. When you reach the lowest you can go without ripping your hamstrings off then come back up 3/4 of the way then back down. You do not return to a full osition until the set in complete. The dimal deadlift seems to work much better the the stiff leg deadlift or the Romanian. The GHR and Reverse Hyper beat them both by a mile."
I'm not sure I believe there is any more risk of injury performoring Dimels than there is with any other exercise. You are only using around 30% of your max weight when you preform Dimels. As with all exercises one needs to pay close attention to form to help avoid injury. Just my opinion.
As far as the multifidus, back extensions off the ghr seem to work that fairly good as do various exercises I do off my swissball and off the floor (ie superman). A good core training routine in general I think is all one really needs.
Dont have much time right now, running a bit late. What exercises do you do to train your core fish?
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Post by fish on Sept 30, 2003 9:58:33 GMT -6
On the Dimels, it is arresting the free fall of the weight that scares me. There are so many variables which can result in significant differences in force from rep to rep. And the catch posture itself seems so vulnerable. Brrrr.
In addition to the rowing and the weights, I do core work with the balls, the wheel, and the total gym.
Favorite Ooof Ball move is overhead slam down onto a hard floor alternating with underhand two handed throw straight up, in both instances catching the ball on the way down after it bounces. (no, it's not like the dimel. the catch posture is different.)
Favorite swiss ball move is a ball walk around an arc. Feet on the ball, body straight, you are the radius of a circle. Now using your hands, walk around the circumference of that circle first one way, then the other.
I do reverse hypers using the swiss ball on the bench in the cage with the catch bars set so I can rest my chest and abdomon on the ball, hold the catch bars and then raise and lower my feet and legs. I add ankle weights when I feel frisky.
Of course, there is the hanging leg lift, the roll outs on the wheel or the swiss ball, (with the swiss ball you can roll out with your feet or your hands on the ball )
There are many many many core exercises with the TG.
The tight arch in the back described in your RDL piece is proper as I understand it. I further understand that the knees are fixed with a slight bend throughout the move. Raising and lowering is effected by moving the buns back and forth. I can't get much below my knees, and I come all the way back up on each rep. I like the move because it is so convenient and adds variety.
Isn't it all such fun, though.
Peace,
fish
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Post by Pam on Sept 30, 2003 12:06:28 GMT -6
Hey fish, as always I am in a rush here so I am not responsible for typos or missing words. The raising and lower on the RDL's is not in moving the butt back and fourth, it comes from bending over at the hips without bending the lowerback (which would put your back in a potentially injurious position). As you lower the bar your butt should go back slightly but the movement originates at the hips. The RDL, despite what most people think, is not meant to directly work the lower back or as a hamstring stretch exercise. Although your hams will get stretched and your lower back will get stronger its main function is as a hip extensor exercise. Gotta run. I hope ya'll are having a great day. |
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Post by jack on Sept 30, 2003 13:03:50 GMT -6
I knew I should have been doing more of those. Thanks Pam,I didn't know that but then again there's a lot I don't know . I knew you would straighten me out . |
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Post by fish on Sept 30, 2003 13:22:01 GMT -6
Pam, I think you are correct that the move originates at the hip, but ... I was and remain somewhat confused about the nomenclature here, but I have read lots of different names for what seem to me to be essentially two moves. The difference between the two is indicated most clearly to me by the distance between the bar and the leg. In what I understand to be the RDL, the bar remains as close as possible to the leg, thus the hips are forced to travel back. The bar travels straight up and down. In what I understand to be a “bent leg straight back deadlift”, the hips remain forward, thus the bar must travel in an arc away from legs. I have read so many descriptions of the move, but the one with the picture I like best is www.olympus.net/personal/cablebar/RL.htmHow that guy gets that far down with his back that straight it wonderful. The two moves have slightly different emphases. I prefer the "hips back, bar travel straight up and down exercise", whatever the heck I should call it, because I think the move works the entire chain, but especially the hams, glutes, and erectors safely. I’m ready to be corrected, though. fish |
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Post by Pam on Sept 30, 2003 14:58:50 GMT -6
Fish, like I said, I think any exercise has the potential to be dangerous if you do not use strict form. Its determining what is strict form that can be confusing. I went to about a half a dozen web sites, not one with pictures had the person doing the RDL the same. I think the trick is to be smart. In the picture you sent me that guy is bending his knees quite a bit, which will allow you to go down further without rounding your back. Still impressive but again one of the main differences I have seen with this exercise. As I said before I think most people view this exercise as a ham/lower back exercise when in fact that is not its main purpose. As far as what to call different exercises...I can run across 6 different names for the exact same exercise. NOt sure that made any sense, to rushed to go back and proof. |
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Post by jack on Oct 1, 2003 3:48:27 GMT -6
You hit the nail on the head Pam............"the trick is to be smart". It doesn't matter what you call the exercise as long it hits the targeted muscle group. "Just do it" is all that matters.
"A perfectly safe exercise is a perfectly useless exercise".....Louie Simmons. Just be smart
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Post by Pam on Oct 1, 2003 6:33:05 GMT -6
Here's what I've also discovered in the years that I have been lifting. I have yet to hurt my back by lifting heavy weights, and I dont think I do too bad for an old woman. I expect everyone to disagree with the fact that I am old.  No I'm not kidding! Anyway, the times that I have hurt my back have been when I have been doing something like turning, or even playing catch with the kids. Granted I havent pulled or popped a disk or whatever it is you do to them, but it has been bad enough that it hurts to even breath. Most people I talk to that have hurt their back dont have a clue how they did it. That includs my nephew who spent several months at the Mayo clinic before they found out his problem was...well not sure exactly what they called it but it had to do with a disk. He was having some pretty severe problems but to this day doesnt have a clue how he did it. My point...as you may have noticed I like to take the long way around the block..is that no matter what you do or how you do it, be smart, know what you're doing before you do it and chances are you will be fine. Weight lifting, powerlifting, bodybuilding...they are all sports, chances are, if you do any of them long enough you're going to get hurt..as with any sport. My new moto....Play smart. |
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Post by fish on Oct 1, 2003 7:41:23 GMT -6
amen
somewhere between nothing ventured, nothing gained and they jest at scars who ne'er felt a wound.
Hey, Pam, I thought that the "hip extensors" are essentially the ham and glute groups ?. I was trying to use the RDL, or whatever it is called, to balance or complement the squat work, ie. the quads and other groups targeted by the squats. Am I mistaken in this ?
It is my understanding that the erectors, the longissimus thoracis muscles, etc, etc, (all that back stuff) are auxiliary or secondary to the straight back deadlift exercises. It's sorta why I asked about the multifidus.
I never knew how complex the back musculature is or how relatively fragile until Nancy took her injury. My raging paranoia about back injury stems from Nancy’s extreme suffering. A mistake here and so much of your life is changed.
We are in the process of researching the subject in the hope that we can better understand the structure and either confirm the rehab design she received, augment it, or put together one of our own.
As I say, I see the suffering that goes with a back injury.
I sincerely hope your nephew is well.
Keep healthy,
fish
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No I'm not kidding! 
And so my week begins.