Olympic high pulls; good alternative to shrugs?

[RyanA]

I think I have read somewhere in westside literature that they do high pulls. Do they do these on Squat days or Bench days? Does it matter?

Jack, you have been emphasizing that I need an upper back exercise, do you think that this would do it or would I be using my legs too much? I would most likely use grips and do them from the hang starting position.

If I did do these, would they assist my starting speed for jumping? Do you think the DE Box Squats are better? I have read a lot of stuff(mostly people's opinions) saying squats dont help vertical because you do not come up on your toe, therefore you can finish the jump which is crucial for jumping high. Any ideas/counters to this point?

[Pam]

I know you were asking Jack but I'll give you my 2 cents. In order work on your vertical jump you have to work for both strength and power. In my opinion the best exercises for strength would be squats and lunges...not that there arent more just 2 of the ones I think are best. But you also have to work for power, power clean (same as high pulls??), plyometrics, etc. Also the best way to get good at your sport is to play your sport. Same same goes for your vertical jump. Keep practicing your vertical jump and it will increase.

So if I were you I wouldnt replace your squats but add exercises that will also increase your vertical jump. You may want to throw in a day or two of plyometrics.

[jackd]

Ryan,I wouldn't do the high pulls on bench day. You're already doing one compound exercise,the bench press,and you don't want to add another. If it were me I'd add all the differnent kinds of shrugs,DB cleans,upright rows(be careful with these),etc. You might use the high pulls on occassion but I wouldn't make them a staple for bench days.

Pam,makes a great point about the squats. DE squats are great for improving your veritcal because they focus on speed and acceleration. Where does the strength come for your vertical......glutes,hams and calves....the ball of the foot and toes only transmit this power to the floor. Like Pam says through in the plyo on your Westside off days as prehab work and use these days to fine tune and tweek those sports specific needs.

[RyanA]

Ok,
Sounds good on the high pulls, I will just do shrugs and save the effort for actual plyometrics.

As for the plyometrics, is the squatting double body weight a myth or does it have some truth?

~Ryan

[jack]

How about squatting 3-4 times body weight and that's no myth. Squatting twice your body weight should be no problem. I was getting about 2.5 times body weight(last winter) before this rash of injuries hit me and I feel that I can get 3 times body weight.....at least that's my goal. Work that posterior chain,follow the Westside regimen and you'll be getting 2x BW in no time.

By the way,are just getting in or getting up when you post .

[Pam]

Ok I'm going to be stupid here, what do plyo's have to do with squatting? May be a stupid question but it wont be the first time I asked one.

Jack, he's 21, I think you can answer that question yourself. I know when I was 21...and often now, I wasnt in before 2 am ever....when I was living on campus anyway....at home those kind of hours were a bit trickier

[jack]

Pam,I don't have a clue as to the relationship between the two. I am glad to see you up though .

[RyanA]

Sorry I wasnt more clear on the plyometrics and squatting. I have read that before engaging in plyometrics one should be able to squat atleast double bodyweight. Now, I am 230 lbs, so tha tis 460, I have never had more than 345 on the bar. Does this mean I should not do plyometrics?

Also, I post pretty much all day but im on the west coast so there is a substantial time difference between what the clock says and what time it is for me. It is 4pm right now... the clock reads 7pm for you guys. I usually go to bed around 12 or earlier if possible. School hasnt started yet for us so I am still enjoying the summer.

Thanks,
Ryan

[Pam]

Hey Ryan,

I have never read nor heard anything about being able to squat double your body weight before you can do plyo's. My nephew just got home from a hockey camp and though he is strong..and skinny...he cant squat double his body weight and they did plyo's all the time..and geez I cant believe how high he can jump.

Plyometrics arent just something you should jump into though. I think from a conditioning stand point you are more than ready but you really should have someone who knows what they are doing help you out at first. Or at the very least read as much as you can about them and watch any videos you can get your hands on.

Enjoy your summer while you can....time goes by way to fast not too. When do you start school out there? I'm from MN and most of the kids have been to school for a week already.

[RyanA]

I have done plyos in the past, just not sure if I was doing them naivly or not.

We start school Sept 28th, on Wed of all days. It is ok though, I am almost done with my bachelors and then ill be working on my PhD the next year so I am excited to head back.

~Ryan

[Pam]

Ryan, what kind of doctor do you want to be?

[RyanA]

I will be working on my PhD in physics most likely. I am looking into some engineering fields but likely to stick to physics unless a good financial offer comes my way.

~Ryan