2 questions

[RyanA]

Posted the same thing on exrx.net.....

Wanted to get your opinions on these 2 questions;

If I want to lower upper body weight(possibly including some muscle eventually), what is the best way to go about it? I guess this is somewhat like maintenance training except I want to detrain the size. It currently seems like no matter what I can gain size pretty easily but not without also gaining some fat(which is the issue).
Thus, my question is, given the initial conditions of decent strength, too much size, how to go to to similar strength, more is obviously great, and less size? Cutting calories always just destroys my energy.

I am a college student, I eat reasonably well, and get what I would say is above average exercise, been lifting on a program similar to westside 3-4 days depending on time constraints and play basketball for 1-2 hours 3-4 times per week. I am 21, 6 ft, and about 232 lbs. I would like to be around 195-205 range. I think my bodyfat is about 18-21%.

2nd question: Been tossing around the idea of "the best exercise for sports". I have heard various people say deadlift has a HUGE correlation to athletic success. What do you guys say? Interested in all your view points?

~Ryan

[fish]

Ryan,

It would help me, as no more than an informed layman, to try to formulate an answer to the first question if I had some idea of why you want to "get smaller".

If speed is the answer, I have mentioned BFS as a resource in the past.

By the way, how many calories do you take in per day ? How much fat ?

How close are you to that dunk ? Can you grab the rim ? One hand ? Two hands ?

If your figures on your body fat ratio are correct, there seems to be some room there. And you can find any number of diet exercise regimes for losing more fat than muscle.

Re Q 2 the best exercise for any particular sport is to work HARD at that sport.

I don't mean to be simplistic, but I read this frequently and I have personally found it to be true over a lifetime of exercise and involvement in sport.

Bill Pearl's "Getting Stronger" includes a series of recommendations for sport specific weight training programs offered by world class trainers in their particular sport. I think there is an obvious common theme involving deadlifts and squats.

As you know, I am a trapbar enthusiast. Some experts refer to the lift as a squatlift because it incorporates elements of both the squat and the deadlift. I like it a lot. My speed work is limited these days, but I can tell that my legs are getting "heavy". If I were younger, I would be doing pylos to keep the speed while I developed the strength.

Don't be too unhappy. The size and strength numbers you have posted are beyond the wildest dreams of most 21 year old guys.

And I mention again that Bigger, Faster, Stronger is institutionally directed at the questions you have posed.

fish

[RyanA]

I was going to mention the "why" of this whole thought but I forgot.

So basically, I would like to get faster, maybe faster is the wrong word. Agile might be a better word. It is hard to change direction when you are a 230 lbs.

I can currently grab the rim. When I played basketball in high school and was about 205 lbs, I could dunk a volleyball. This was with almost no lifting strength. I have a bit of trouble palming the ball so I could use some extra height to dunk with 2 hands.

Part of my question is, how do I stop getting bigger when I lift. Any thoughs on this?

~Ryan

[fish]

How not to get bigger is easy. Just read all the stuff on how to get bigger and do the opposite. And that seems to come down to two simple principles : do not feed the beast; do not increase the weight you lift.

Even if you take your body fat down to low double numbers you’re not going to loose that much body weight. Surely you don’t want to loose muscle. Therefore it would seem that you have to work on agility and power. Olympic lifts certainly develop power. So I reckon you have to move the weights you’re moving now, but move them faster. Gross oversimplification I know. Also, I read so often that inertia leads to loss of control leads to injury. Another gross oversimplification.

BFS is dedicated to strength and speed. For them, strength training is only a tool for functional excellence in sport. Their definition of speed explicitly includes agility which includes quickness. They do lots of pylo including dot drills. The program has been used at all levels of sport, from HS girls to NBA boys.

As for changing direction at 230, how much does an NBA guard or an NFL defensive back weigh these days ?

OK, I’m off to EXRX to see how wrong my suggestions are.

Keep the faith,

fish

[RyanA]

Well,

To answer the size thing, I believe most 6 foot guards in the NBA would weigh in under 200 lbs. Kobe Bryant is 6'6 and weighs 220. Chris webber is 6'10 and weighs 240 but I am only 6feet.

~Ryan

[fish]

Ryan,

OK, I have read all the stuff at EXRX.

S.I. is a well informed fellow, is he not ?

IMHO

I believe that there is a proper way to do calorie reduction, viz a series of small calorie reductions in the context of frequent feedings until new weight plateaus are reached, all the while continuing a strenuous weight training regime. If done properly, then calorie reduction can be very productive in body composition change with minimal muscle and strength loss. This is a long term project.

But you have said that you don’t like how you feel with calorie reductions.

This leaves calorie maintenance.

If you increase your weights and do not increase your calories, you should convert fat to muscle over time. Again, this is a long term project.

I asked your purpose in losing weight.

Health ? If you remain active, working both with resistance training and aerobic training, I do not believe that your present fat level or weight will be detrimental to your general health, ever. It might prove a little tough on your leg and ankle joints over time. Not only have I experienced the benefits of being chronically fit, but I have read considerable literature on this. Although I have also read that very thin people live longer, but who wants that?

Performance. ? I know that I would be quicker and my knees would feel better if I carried 10 lbs less fat, but then there is Beer from these wonderful micro breweries,

Appearance ? Beyond a certain point this is all in your head. Given the numbers you post, you must be big, but you can’t look bad. Remember, anorexic people think that they look fat. I know that I would look better if I carried 10 lbs less fat, but then there is Beer from these wonderful micro breweries.

Keep the faith,

fish

[RyanA]

Actually, aesthetics is nto a big part of it.

I have high blood pressure/ borderline high blood pressure.

I also have been getting sore joints, hip/knee/ankle.

My thought is, to balance my sports and health needs, it seems as though having extra upper body mass isnt that helpful. So I am trying to figure out a way to lose mass of all types(obviously fat first would be good but I also feel some extra muscle is giving me more weight than I need).

Scott is an informed person but I am not sure about how he says that those really heavy people can still be helpful. They must suffer from some joint problems due to all that weight they carry.

[fish]

Ryan,

I think it is significant that you are having joint soreness at your age.

Hypertension is very significant at any age.

The literature on hypertension that I have seen indicates that weight training is ok if 1. your Doctor says it is and 2. it done improperly. No valsalva.

I think you should go to a Doctor who knows what s/he is talking about to inquire about hypertension as it relates to weight training and to ask about other possible causes for your joint soreness. Arthritis for example.

If I were you I would consider body weight exercises for a while. Gymnasts do not lift weights. Gymnasts are very strong. Gymnasts are light relative to their strength.

I have always felt the only purpose of conditioning exercise was to make my body perform better at the widest variety of physical activities. You seem to have the same goal.

Peering into the depths of our magic 8 ball we find that signs point to eating less.

I don’t mean to be trite, but people forget that as small a reduction as 230 fewer calories a day = two pounds a month = almost 25 pounds a year.

I know that there are other factors and that this seems like a gross oversimplification, but if one eats less, one will eventually loose weight.

And who says that you will automatically lose strength if you lose weight ?

Hey, I'm an old man, so I get to lecture you young kids about good health. If you have not done so already, please get those issues checked by a sports doctor.

fish

[RyanA]

I dont get joint soreness from lifting. I get joint soreness from playing basketball. For example, after a weekend where I play bball for about 2 hours both days, my knees will often be sore or more often my hip. In addition, all the ligaments in my ankles will be aching. Now, I realize I am picking up how much I play but I have gone thru many events of no basketball and then lots of basketball and never had ankle ligament issues. The main difference is I am about 15 lbs heavier than 3-4 years ago. When I played basketball in high school I was 205 lbs and that was great, never hurt anywhere.

Also, the thing I found most strange is after basketball my entire back, lower and upper is very stiff and feels like it needs to be cracked but never cracks.

I have had some pretty good analysis about high blood pressure from doctors. I have had it since I have been about 3 years old. Just moderately high. In fact, they arent even sure I have real high blood pressure, they think I might just get worked up when going to the doctors which is a common thing I hear. I have a home blood pressure cuff and monitor it often. I have had blood work done to test my cholesterol and my cholestrol is actually very low although my HDL is a little low as well in terms of ratio BUT they believe my cholestrol levels to be okay. I have also had a kidney sonigram and that didnt show anything either SO, I am not sure. I have no high blood pressure in my family but do have history of just about everything bad out there. Heart attacks on both sides, strokes, cancer, etc.

I realize that muscle wont affect these health concerns but I feel losing 20-30 lbs would make my joints feel better and let me enjoy life a little more. That is my motivation.