woods run

[fish]

Distance about 5 miles.

Terrain mixed, rolling deep woods paths.

Perceived effort (PE) between Long Slow Distance (LSD) and Onset Blood Lactate (OBL).

Heart rate 128-138

Crossing a stream couldn't help but see the masses of Cardinal Flowers and then, for the first time ever, found a number of Small Purple Fringed Orchids. So I saw two of the most unusual and beautiful wild flowers on this single run.

Thank you God.

[jack]

Well, that was a different type of workout writeup. You'll have to explain the second sentence to me.

[fish]

mixed terrain = the surface of the "track" changes. Sometimes sandy, sometimes firm, sometimes smooth, sometimes rocky, sometimes over boulders.

rolling = mixed flat surface with small hills.

I think this type of a run has benefits beyond cardio vascular - cardio pulmonary.

I believe that the additional immediate adjustments made by the stabilizers throughout the body decrease the chance of injury in other common situations. You may have read about the use of the swiss ball to cause the stabilizers to fire “faster” and the effect of such practice in avoiding lower back injury. Also tai chi practice is shown to improve balance and thereby reduce falls in geriatrics . I think running on bumpy surfaces and hilly tracks has the same effect, and results in fewer injuries, especially to the ankle, knee, hip, and low back. This in addition to the cardio benefits.

That’s the second sentence.

As for some other benefits ...

I believe that an awareness of exposure to nature has a great beneficial psychological effect. This is difficult to explain, but Emerson’s short essay, “Nature” is an aide to understanding.

Of course, any systematic effort helps to have a good “hard” head.

For example, I think the potential psychological benefits of weight lifting are undervalued. The self discipline alone would be enough, but then there are the improvements in self image, etc., etc.

Peace

[Pam]

Good morning guys.

Five miles, I am lucky to last one when I try to run. I am not a runner..or jogger. I've tried and I'm not sure if its because of my asthma or what but I just cant do it. I can walk fast, in fact, I can walk faster than I jog but get me jogging and I am sucking wind real fast. I used to run...well jog...a bit on my treadmill back when I had knee problems. Jack suggested that I stop way back when and they did get better. I do sprints now and I think thats as close to running as I'll ever get.

Anyway, enough rambling. Fish I think the sentence Jack was talking about was actually the third one, "Perceived effort (PE) between Long Slow Distance (LSD) and Onset Blood Lactate (OBL)." I could be wrong but I'd bet his left arm I'm not. Yes, that is my attempt at humor...I shouldnt try to be funny before my first cup of coffee.

Have a wonderful weekend guys. I'll be heading on out to the lumber yard again...wish me luck.

[jack]

Pam,you are absolutely correct,it was the third sentence I was curious about. What would I do if I didn't have you around to keep me straight and corrected .

[Pam]

Let's just hope we never have to find out.

[fish]

OK, the propiosensory stuff is in sentence two.

sentence three is cardio stuff.

Perceived effort (PE) between Long Slow Distance (LSD) and Onset Blood Lactate (OBL).

these are references to different degrees of effort and corresponding different effects on how the body burns its fuel. includes processes involving metabolic enzymes, capillaries, mitochondria, muscle triglycerides, and stuff like that

different effects have been tied to exercise at different percentages of maximum heart rate.

PE - it is relatively easy to associate exercise at different percentages of maximum heart rate with how the individual perceives their exertion on a scale from easy through very hard. the modified Borg scale is generally used.

LSD - PE at LSD is said to be guilt inducingly easy. at this rate the muscles burn fat almost exclusively. lots of oxygen available.

OBL - also knows as Anaerobic Threshold (AT), this is the level of exertion at which the body begins to metabolize glucose in a chemical reaction that does not require oxygen. PE here is hard.

different rates have different effects. individuals react differently. thus the trick is to find the mix of different rates which have the desired effect on each individual.

same principle as in weight training, no ?

[Pam]

Fish, you have me totally confused, well maybe not totally. I understand PE, I prefer wearing a heartrate monitor but none the less I understand PE. But you've got me on the rest of what you wrote. Is part of what you're saying that you....not even sure how to word that. I need to grab some more coffee..grab my books and see if I cant understand what you're trying to say here. In the meantime if you'd like to attempt it in a left handed art major kind of way feel free.

Have a great Sunday.

[fish]

Pam,

this is a gross oversimplification. especially as to the fuels used and the non oxygen system. this is, of course, based on stuff i have read. i am no expert.

generally:
an engine burns fuel mixed with air and
an engine must exhaust or vent after burn product.

in this case (muscle)
the engine can burn different kinds of fuel and
the engine can use a chemical to burn fuel is there is not enough oxygen.

general principle for this engine is that as burn rate increases,
1. fuel goes from almost all one kind, to a mix, to almost all the other kind.
2. oxygen goes from sufficient, to mixed with non-oxygen burn, to insufficient
3. exhaust goes from almost complete to insufficient.

LSD = about 60 % MHR. engine burns almost purely fat. oxygen sufficient. exhaust is almost complete.

60 % - 70 % = burning fat and glycogen mix. oxygen sufficient. exhaust is sufficient.

70 % - 80 % = glycogen and fat mix. oxygen slightly insufficient. begin to burn using non-oxygen system. begin lactate production. exhaust reaching limits. heavy breathing facilitates waste dump.

80 % - 90 % = fuel mix continues to change. oxygen more insufficient. exhaust increasingly insufficient as lactate builds up somewhat faster than it can be dumped.

over 90 % eventually reach point that oxygen delivery system cannot deliver enough to keep the engine running at a high rate, exhaust insufficiency results in rapid lactate build up. system at limits and will slowdown to permit recovery.

another general principle is that we have relatively lots of one fuel (fat) and relatively less of the others. a person can run out of fuel, but this is a marathoner's issue.

ok, lefty ?

[Pam]

Well I thought I had time to sit and respond but looks like I'm off again...I am so sick of running!

Anyway, I know what you're talking about fish. I do understand the different energy sources just wasnt sure that was what you were talking about before.

The lactate threshold which from what I can recall begins at about 70-80% of maximal oxygen uptake----in trained individuals and can actually be pushed back, or would that be up? Anyway it can occur later if you work near or above LT or OBLA.

I just dont have time right now, I need to run but one quick question, during your run what would you say our PE was on a scale of 1-10? Also do you ever wear a heart rate monitor? I guess that was 2 questions.

Have a good one.

[fish]

Pam,

I think that we are talking about stuff that might be on your test when the time comes.

In the '60s Dr. Gunnar Borg came up with a scale for perceived exertion numbered from 6 to 20. Turns out that if one adds a zero to the number, one often gets close to the actual heart rate.

Borg changed the numbers to a less-than-one to higher- than-10 scale to facilitate use of his system.

Somewhere between 5 and 7 on the modified scale is the onset of blood lactate point. I call it my huff and puff point.

But as you point out, the obla point can be changed, somewhat, by conditioning.

Also, different individuals have different MHRs. For example, mine is so much highter than average, that the commonly published heart rate training zone targets simply don't apply to me.

For this reason I rely on and my PE to tell me when I hit the obla and my heart rate monitor to tell me what my actual heart rate at obla. From there I can calculate my other target heart rate zones for most effective exercise.

So my PE on the run was between 2 and 7 on my scale. The heart rates mentioned are a little off.

Make sense ?

p.s. that stuff about the potential psychological benefits of exposure to nature is supposed to be about addressing a certain kind of exhaustion. i have to find the time for that, or i tend to get to all systems shut downs.

Keep the faith,

fish

[Pam]

Yes, it makes sense. Like I said, I just wasnt sure what you were getting at before. As for my test, I'm taking the home version so its all essay. Its not an easy test but I am hoping it helps to prepare me for the NSCA CFT test.

There is one part where I have to gather my fitness buddies together and compare notes as we do certain exercises, then I have to do a write-up about it. Since I dont have any fitness buddies at home here I'm hoping for a little help from people here.....hint hint.

[fish]

done deal.

let me know what exercise you want to do and the measurements you want taken.

i warn you, i'm old and weak.

let the games begin.

hey jack, if you'll run, i'll try to do the dynamic weight stuff. p.s. did you read John Davies latest routine at T-rag ?

fish

[Nathan05]

Hi everyone, by the way this is nate dawg from the other page. This page is a lot more detailed, anyways I was just wondering if any of you could answer any of these questions. When taking creatine do any of you have an opinion on what cycleing to do, like load then 5 weeks then stop for a certain amount of time. I read that its better to take with grape juic, does it make a difference than with water. If you know of a web site with any info please post, thanks.

[Pam]

Nate, I stared a new thread on this for you under the Training section. I just wanted to be sure Jack saw this because I know he's taken creatine before.